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Misha's avatar

> This sounds simple, but it was revolutionary. Alchemists certainly did experiments, but they often interpreted results through pre-existing frameworks... When an experiment didn't work, they might blame [..]. Early chemists began to treat unexpected results as potentially valuable information about how nature actually works, rather than as failures to achieve a predetermined goal.

It feels there is something very deep behind this mindshift. It increases the learning signal density per observation. And the "alchemist"/"scientist" mind stance differentiation seems widespread.

Encountering a bug in your program, answering a question from the textbook incorrectly, or failing to apply self-help advice. Curiosity in learning from negative results brings you much closer to almost any goal in the above endeavors (or "dissolving" a goal). However, the human default seems to ignore large or whole parts of the negative experience.

And this scientific mind stance seems really hard to notice and switch to, if you are in a "alchemist" mode!

1. There is a reflex of feeling bad that covers nodes linked to negative outcomes with 'ugh fields'.

2. And there is resistance towards switching to enjoying leaning towards contact with negative: "but I care about [working program/answering textbook questions right/being a good person/getting gold] - why should I seek leaning towards something that is the OPPOSITE? You want me to stop caring about my GOAL? No, thank you very much!"

Maybe this shift truly happens from some larger viewpoint or worldview?

Pedro Santos's avatar

What struck me here is your analogy to chemistry’s transition from alchemy. The point wasn’t that early chemists had a better theory than alchemists — it was that they had a better practice: precise observation, reproducibility, curiosity about failures as well as successes. That really resonates with your suggestion that subjective science has to start from reproducible “state shifts.”

Where I get stuck (and maybe you’re circling this too) is measurement. Chemistry advanced once people could weigh and measure reliably. For subjective science, what’s the equivalent of a scale or a beaker? Is it language, metaphor, physiological readouts, intersubjective agreement, or some yet-to-be-invented practice?

I’d love to see you expand on what a “crucial experiment” might look like here. What’s the equivalent of aqua regia dissolving gold — the phenomenon so striking that it forces everyone to take note, even without a theory?

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